Frienz/Issues 33-34

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Frienz is a gen and non-explicit slash Starsky & Hutch letterzine.

They contain letters, want ads, con reports, clippings, flyers, and occasional fiction.

Issue 33 (November 1995)

Frienz 33 was published in November 1995 and contains 32 pages.

cover of issue #33

• TOTM: "What do you think are some of the sillier moments that S&H indulge in throughout the series?"
• transcript (partial?) of an interview with Paul Michael Glaser from the French press, "Femme Actuelle"
• Road Trip in a Coke Box, fiction by Linda Cody (told from the point of view of Louise, the guinea pig)
• ads for Blue Eyes and Blue Jeans #1 and #2, No Easy Answers, Renascence
• a con report for ZebraCon, see that page
• a fan's lengthy descriptions of seeing David Soul in England October 14 at the DS get-together and the cabaret at Cafe Royal (London) and Leatherhead in Surrey to see him in the play "Catch Me If You Can" at the Thorndike Theatre
• The Official One and Only Starsky & Hutch Slash Quiz ("for adults only") (the quiz contains fourteen suggestive lines from the show, and has absolutely no sexual components; the warning then is for simply the idea of a same-sex relationship) (sample questions, what episode did they buy a house together, did they hug, did they slap each other's butts, call each other "Babe," when did Huggy call a "Starsky without a Hutch is like a pig without a poke"...) (contributed by Theresa Kyle)

Issue 33: Sample Fan Comments

From the editor:

Many thanks to everyone for voting for FRIENZ at ZebraCon last month, It looks great hanging on the wall. BLUE EYES & BLUE JEANS, FULL CIRCLE [#3] and FLASHPOINT all debuted & were for sale at Linda McGee's table in the Dealer's Room at ZCon. Eager readers bought her out. Today is the time to write Tabby Davis if you're interested in reading her RENASCENCE. The number of copies of the zine that she'll print depends on the number of letters of interest she receives.

Comments on the fourth season:

I agree with you about the fourth season eps. Even though they do act a bit different (maybe from being burnt out or maturing?), they still love and care for each other a great deal. You have to look for their unique bond a little harder, but it’s still there. I think if we saw anything after the airing of SR, it would of been more visible once again.

More comments on the fourth season:

What would SH do post Sweet Revenge? This oft-mentioned topic also intrigues me as post SR stories are my favourites. I am a big fourth season fan in general - I like the way the two men developed. I think they would have become more cynical, jaded and even, yes, occasionally jaded with each other as in SVH, which I found very convincing and also quite moving - this doesn't make them, to me, worse people, just more human, and it doesn't make them disappointing, it makes them real - the fact that their relationship can suffer a few blows makes it. very real and therefore makes the fact that they can get over it and maintain their beautiful bond, both moving and magical.... It was also the fourth season SH that I first discovered and it obviously didn't put me off, look where I am now! In the post SR universe, I tend to go along with T. White's ideas as expressed in "Hopscotch" and "Cowboys", my two all time favourite zines. I can see them stop being cops but I can't see them veering too far away from the profession. Being Private Eyes can open up all kinds of doors into wonderful stories and it also keeps them together.

Some head canon, and a statement that a complicated Hutch may reflect a complicated David Soul:

Despite all that’s been written. I don't know if I really agree that Hutch had a bad childhood. The few times he's mentioned it, it's been with a lot of enthusiasm and excitement in Murder at Sea, and he mentions his family a bit in Murder on Stage 17 and Starsky's Lady with no touch of resentment or anger. I think, however, he is a very complex person. Starsky is much easier to figure out. With Hutch, you know there is a lot of deep meaning behind most of what he says or does. I think that has a lot to do with the actor that plays him. David seems to have a lot of complex ideas and emotions inside of him as well. My impression of Hutch is that he had a very sheltered life, full of love but unrealistic ideals. He was hidden from the ugliness of the world and when he encountered it, he thought it would be easy to change it. But after awhile, he realized the world isn't as rosy and lovely as he imagined. Maybe that's why he appears so disillusioned so much of the time.

A fan hopes for the best for the actors:

I really enjoyed the many articles on Paul in the last issue. It sounds like he's doing the best he can to live a full life under the circumstances. He sure is a strong and wonderful person. He deserves the best. Maybe he'll be rewarded by not losing his son. Here's hoping the best for both of them!!!

No dull middle-aged lives for our boys:

I love this month’s TOTM because that’s one of the things I enjoy most about this fandom. S&H’s tendency to enjoy a fun undercover job, or to play pranks on each other points to a real enjoyment of life, a being young at heart despite their job. (Maybe that's why all the other detectives we see on the show are interchangeable middle-aged guys in rumpled suits. Bet they don't have a lot of fun...)

Comments by [K H K]: Not enough joy in fanfic, “reality" v. “realism," some thoughts on slash fanfic:

I miss a lot of that joy in fanfic. There are certainly some stories out there that are - really delightful and capture a lot of the enjoyment S&H often seem to have for their work. But I’ve noticed in this fandom in particular, there is such a heavy emphasis on that elusive idea of “realism," that a lot of the fanfic is very dark and introspective, and ultimately depressing. This need not be so! For one thing, there seems to be a prevalent myth about the worn-out, disillusioned cop who’s fighting a losing battle for the sake of “justice." but this simply isn't valid. Sure, there are always malcontents in every field, but this job. more than most others, really gets into the blood, and most policemen like their line of work and take pride in it. The setbacks and frustrations are offset by the advantages and success stories. And policework isn’t even the most dangerous of occupations - farming claims that honor.

Also, I think there’s a lot of confusion about “reality" v. “realism." Reality is that people die, that being a cop is often boring and rarely idealistic. We cannot control reality and it is often unpleasant. My taste of it has been that the only two cops I ever knew personally as friends were both shot and killed in the line of duty. I do try to find the good in life, but sometimes I like to indulge in a little escapist fiction, and when I do, I expect realism, not necessarily reality. I expect stories that are believable, that sound like real cases, that include realistic people and situations and reactions. Realism means that shooting someone has consequences, that police work isn't always easy, and can often (esp. to h/c-er's) be dangerous. But realism is flexible. Beloved characters don’t have to die in it. Traumas can be worked out, injury can be inflicted over and over and the characters still bounce back. It caters to our vision, not we to its. And that's what makes fanfic so much fun, because we can do anything we want, as long as we stay in those wide boundaries of “realism."

I understand that perhaps, for some, what they want to do is two cops burning out. And if so, that's their right to write it like that and share that vision with others. But that's a sad thing, because life is hard enough without making entertainment wrenching and emotionally exhausting as well. My ideal is a story that uplifts, that shows the joy and wonder and pleasure that a perfect best friend can provide. Isn’t that why we watch this show? It is every person’s dream to have someone as close to them and always there for them as S&H are for each other. Why taint that? Why make it into something suffocating or consuming or isolating? Problems crop up, sure, but why not surmount them and allow love to conquer all? It needn’t be hearts and flowers, but it needn't be the weight of the world, either. God knows, reality has enough of that already.

This is also why I don’t believe in slash. I know that's not a popular statement, but I’m not referring to my moral or religious beliefs. I simply mean that it not only defies realism, but is also an unhealthy direction to go. The reality is that S&H are very attracted to the opposite sex, and that they seem uncomfortable with any action that the other, or any observers, could take as sexual inclinations toward each other (“Iron Mike,” “Tap Dancing," "Satan’s Witches"). Besides which, when you’ve got such a physically open and demonstrative pair like this, taking it further seems unnecessary. But it's also not healthy, for not only is it dangerous in their line of work to have that kind of attachment (as Barbara has pointed out to me repeatedly, spouses are never partnered together), but it also increases their isolation and interdependence to an unhealthy level. Yes, we want them to rely heavily on each other and to care more for each other than for anyone else, but if one person becomes the answer to your every need - physical, emotional, spiritual, etc. that’s a very precarious and dangerous mental slate. It's harmful. Okay, I’m done. Anyone agree with all this, or have I just pegged myself as a hopeless idealist? How about a cynic with an optimistic streak...

A fan takes another fan to task about the suggestion that fandom is mostly transactional:

Jane, I must beg to differ with your statement about only getting as much back as you put in to something. From the very first in this fandom, people have been gracious and generous before I had done anything myself, and they seemed to expect nothing in return. It does make one want to give something back and I have tried, but still, just about every kindness I have received was both unsolicited and unmerited.

The internet, maybe not that bad:

I can't agree with your fears about the ‘net, Evelyn. I've not had much experience with cyberspace, but I have with production companies, and S&H is simply not a hot issue. I know people who have received “cease and desist" orders in relation to Star Trek, X-Files, and Highlander, but those were either money-making ventures or official-sounding companies (like presses), and the fandoms involved were ones Paramount, Fox, etc. are still making money off of, so of course they don’t want anyone cutting into their market. But S&H is hardly considered hot property anymore (well, what do they know), and the powers-that-be usually like anything that keeps interest going in their old franchises. The only danger I can see in advertising is the kind Barbara has warned about, the nuts or self-appointed censors who like to wreck havoc for personal reasons.

A scare:

I seem to remember, many years ago, long before the Internet and Bulletin Boards, there was a scare in S&H fandom that some of the fanfiction might have found its way into the Spelling-Goldberg offices. Panic reigned briefly, with thoughts of infringement of copyright, or, even worse defamation of the near-sacred characters. It was perhaps a bit paranoid, and in the end didn't amount to anything. Nevertheless, your thoughts with regard to what can now be picked up fan publications these days, do warrant consideration.

More scares, more fears:

While technically it’s illegal for us to use copyrighted characters from series, as a general statement I don't think zines are in danger. We know that Paramount is in it for the money, but zines (including letterzines) are not a secret anymore, even if specifics of publications/editors aren't actually known to the studio. I do understand the reasoning behind fear of advertising on the Internet, but at the risk of sounding naive, I am not quite as clear on why Jean doesn't want any ads publicly for FRIENZ in a 'fannish' context, like in an adzine such as THE MONTHLY or GAZ.

Photocopy away!:

I've been informed that 3-11 has finally SOLD OUT, so that joins the list of our zines for which you have xerox permission. In fact, the only things that DON'T have xerox permission are NO EASY ANSWERS (Jody has a few copies left, if anyone is interested. SASE her for price and details) and, of course, the VtD stories...

More money for more chatting, sure!:

This L/Z is a substantial publication. Often, one wishes for the chance of direct discussion on reading a letter, and of course, it's very nice to meet new contributors (who probably represent just the tip of a whole iceberg of SH interest).... As one who enjoys the lively diversity of these letters, yes, I'd be willing to pay more for a fatter L/Z — if Jean is willing to pay whatever that might involve in terms of her time and energy. Being a L/Z editor must be an on-going task. There's a link here with a recent Topic for Discussion? — the one about 'regrets', no, I have none of those. The friendship and the kindness which this fandom has brought me over many years don't relate on any level to that question. So, sure, I'd pay more for more interesting letters, more of what we now have.

Issue 34 (January 1996)

Frienz 34 was published in January 1996 and contains 28 pages.

cover of issue #34, Ruth Kurz

• TOTM: "Speaking as writers or readers, what sorts of stories -- plotwise -- would you enjoy reading?"
• Baby Pool, fiction by Ginger Fitts
• Suffering, fiction by Linda Cody, from the view of Louise the Guinea Pig

Issue 34: Sample Fan Comments

Comments by [K H K] about that songtape shown at MediaWest*Con and a fan's shock at an X-rated clip that was in one of them:

I'm sorry, but actually I meant exactly what I said about the room party. I did not attack or condemn, but I couldn’t not say anything, either. I did lose something that night. This may shock some, but I have never seen clips like those before, and, yes, X-rated clips, however brief, are still pornography. It sincerely bothered me.

But the fact that that video existed or was even shown was not what I had a problem with. I have always maintained that others can do what they want, it is no business of mine to condemn or restrict them. What bothered me is that there was no warning given. It's ironic that the very people who preach tolerance are usually the ones who are so intolerant of others. Doesn't tolerance include respecting the beliefs of others who are more “narrow-minded" than yourself, too? Yes, slash bothers me. and yes, I even think it's wrong. But my intolerance for slash extends only to myself - I do not impose my beliefs on others nor even look down on those who do not think as I do. I just avoid it in my own life, and sometimes even that is made impossible.

If this sounds a little paranoid, I have reason to be. In the few short months I've been in this fandom, I’ve already been quietly told once that I have “nothing new to offer" the fandom, and I’ve been repeatedly snubbed, condescended to, and looked down upon because of my non-slash taste. And this is without my ever having made any negative comments about slash or slash fans.

I've never been in a fandom before that has been so biased toward slash fans and fanfic. The real paradox is that I've never been in a fandom that’s so warm and tight-knit, either. Those who have shown me kindness, have been warm and helpful and generous beyond belief. It is with their support and encouragement that I continue to write and that I set out to do a zine with Cathee in the first place. That's the S&H fandom I know and love and claim to be a part of, the one that upholds the values of the show. We are bound by a common spirit, the love of these characters and the beauty of life that they represent and let us share in. That's the way things should be, not these silly arguments and backbiting.

So all I’m asking for, guys, is a little bit of the tolerance you preach. If genfic was as offensive to slash people as slash is to gen fans, I bet the slash people would be a lot more tolerant of those of us who do not share their views. But I believe what I believe for very solid reasons, and my standards are as important to me as yours are to you. Surely this world is big enough for everyone's tastes and preferences.

Sorry to be so serious, I hope it won’t come up again. It's just that I’ve fought prejudice for so many years, usually being in the minority with my beliefs, and it hurts when I find that same attitude in fandom, a world I usually escape to. I may not have known the characters for 20 years, but I do know and love them an awful lot now, and all I'm looking for is to share that love with fellow fans. Hopefully not too much to ask?

Reality vs. fantasy:

What [KHK] says about a "perfect best friend" also strikes a sympathetic chord with me. That idea - or ideal- so beautifully realised in the whole series was certainly why I watched the show. Nor did I feel the need for it to be extended into an all-consuming passion. Not believing in slash may not be a popular statement, or then again it might be, according to your point of view, but in the beginning (and some of us were there then), nobody believed in slash. Or, if they did, they kept it to themselves for a considerable time. So, yes, [KHK], I for one do agree with your expressed views on this subject.

Some agreement and some disagreement:

You really come up with some thought-provoking ideas, [KHK]! I found your comments about reality vs realism to be very astute. I agree completely with everything you said in your first two paragraphs. While I want to read and write believable stories, I love these two characters and have no desire to make them miserable. At least, not on a permanent basis. Conflict of some sort drives most fiction, but personally, I need for the outcome to be positive.

We part company on the issue of slash. I don’t argue that S&H are attracted to women. But they also, in your own words, 'care more for each other than for anyone else.’ They may have separated quickly when the two attractive women appeared in "Satan's Witches", but they show no such concern in the tag of "Tap Dancing" when Ginger finds them cheek-to-cheek in Dobey’s office, one might assume that the automatic reaction to being caught in one another’s arms, no matter how innocently, would be to jump apart. (This would certainly be true of ‘typical’ males, but of course ‘typical’ males probably wouldn’t have been in this position in the first place!) Rather than hastening to demonstrate that nothing w going on. H keeps his arm around S, hand on his shoulder.

Rather than leaving open the possibility that one will fall in love with woman and thus place her before his partner, I prefer to imagine that they will eventually - at the end of or post-fourth season -- expand their relationship to include the only missing element. Rather than depending on one another to the exclusion of all else, I imagine them continuing to maintain the same healthy outside interests and friendships that we see in the series. If this doesn’t seem valid to some people, I guess it can be chalked up as <>my concession to realism over 'reality'! To each her own.

Slash is not inherently bad:

While I do NOT share [KHK's] opinions in her perception of a "/" premise in fanfiction as intrinsically "unhealthy" or "defiant of realism." In consideration of space, I won't reiterate, now, points often made in L/Z discussion. There's good writing -- and good relationship -- in both genres, "/" or non-"/". Neither has a monopoly of talent or of truth -- nor of "realism." True -- some relationships may attract the term, "unhealthy" -- but the term would apply in various contexts -- not exclusively to "/".

Another fan wrote about "porn":

Linda - I never for a moment thought you nice ladies were showing porn in the room at Media West. But since you mentioned viewing songtapes, whose were they? I never hear anything about videos and have no idea who's making them or how to get copies. I've done a bunch and would like to trade for any new ones I can get.

About crossovers:

I like some crossovers. QUANTUM LEAP works. I've seen a couple of examples. What about the X-FILES? I mean, we know how much S&H love the Feds... Since I've seen very little new S&H recently, I don't know if this kind of thing is being done, or if the fanfic is still rehashing the agonies for 50 pages, fall into bed, run through most of JOY OF GAY SEX, live happily ever after' scenario. I hope I'm wrong about that. SH writers have always seemed blessed with very vivid imaginations, and it would be a shame to get into that rut.

About realism in fanfiction:

I agree with your views on realism vs. reality -- and on the S&H question. But in that case, why did we write it? Because we wanted to see what happened, that's why... Guess that's the reason we wrote any of our fanfic. And just looking at the quantity we've managed to chum out gives me hope that writer's blocks cannot last forever.

No actors, please:

I have to agree with you about not really wanting to meet the actors it was the characters that interested me most, too. In fact, I can only think of two actors I would be happy to meet with, and neither of them is Glaser or Soul. (Mel Gibson and Peter Ustinov, in case you want to know). Unless, that is, my little daydream of being a Famous Author comes true, in which case the fannishness would be on the other foot, so to speak.

The Internet:

I would love to know what problems people have encountered with the Internet. I'm sure people have good reason to be concerned, but I'd like to know why. I have belonged for several months to a WWW site on the Internet concerning Alien Nation, and I don't think that there have been problems there. The people involved with the show, of course, are happy to give fans info about the upcoming TV movies, etc. But a lot of fannish activity: zines, novels, notes from a visit to the set, etc. has appeared there, but nothing evil has happened. In fact, it was my helpful and pleasant experience with that site that led me to ask about anything for S&H.

The Internet:

As for the 'net,' like many others, I understand [people's] reservations. A recent correspondent summed it up -- "caution should be the watchword." It could be naive to assume otherwise. Naturally, one should be free to make one's own decisions for oneself, but hesitation may be appropriate if that process means that we claim to make decisions for others, too -- decisions affecting others, without consultation. So an elementary courtesy may be involved here, irrespective of whether or not S&H is "a hot property." Barbara's letter sees the potential complication clearly.

Needs a computer:

The spring semester has begun for me. I'm taking a Quark course at the community college. I’m also taking an Internet course wherein I’ll learn HTML to create Home Pages on the Net. Now all I need is my own computer.

More on visibility, keeping this letterzine out of the adzines:

Jean can speak for herself, of course, but regarding why she might not want Frienz advertised in an adzine: Recently it was discovered that one well-meaning fan was copying ads directly out of the “On the Double" adzine onto a public net board. The editor of OTD (along with several other people) talked with her and she is no longer doing this, but it just underlines the difficulty in keeping one’s ads limited to the intended audience. I’m sorry if others don’t understand why someone might wish to maintain their privacy, but I wish they would respect others to the extent that they would ask before publishing someone else’s name. If it's okay with the person asked, no problem. But one should be given the right to veto.

Not a pedophile or a pornographer:

My experiences with fandom have been good, and I think that the nicest people tend to be attracted to fandom, with the cream of the crop being the "Starsky and Hutch" fans. The hazards associated with the Internet seem to be more with people not understanding certain aspects of fandom and lumping it in with the pedophiles and pornographers. I can understand why anyone would want to be careful.

What I like:

As to what kind of stories I like, I prefer that Starsky and Hutch be together. I really don't like the ones where they are split up for most of the story. One of the main things I like about the series and the fandom is the interaction between Starsky and Hutch. I like the witty banter between them and a look at their lives off-duty is nice. I also find them doing policework is a good touch to the story. As for slash, I'm of two minds on the subject. Some slash has really good interaction scenes, but some are mostly sex. I just can't believe that two rampagingly heterosexual, women-chasing, confirmed flirts would have sex with each other. So, I do read slash; sometimes I just can't willing suspend my disbelief and sometimes I just can't finish the story. Basically, I feel that a little separation, for hurt/comfort, is ok, but that the name of the series is "Starsky AND Hutch" and that's what I like most.

What I like:

TOTM; Speaking strictly as a reader. I like h/c stories, like those in the ZEBRA 3s, and any type of stories that give me insight into the characters. Plots should be believable, with not too much emphasis on police work - it's been said over and over that the relationship is the important thing (because it is), but I can accept just about anything as long as it's well-written, except death stories.

What I like:

TOTM - What sort of stories (plotwise) would I enjoy reading? I think I'm ready to give any plot a try, provided it doesn't rule out the slash premise. The stories I've read so far have been so diverse, and yet so good. For example, I was very immersed in "Decorated for Death" and "Winter", such chillingly fascinating but very different stories, with a similar premise, S and H trying to survive in a post-holocaust ruin of a future.

"Distant Shores" was very moving. I felt for Starsky on every page. It was so wonderfully done. In fact, I would love to read an alternative version of the conclusion, where fairy-tale complete recoveries aren't always possible, but it is possible to keep on living and loving with just the same degree of passion and dignity.

Almost everything I've read in SH fandom has been so enjoyable, whether it's been a novel or a short story, whether its an ordinary day-in-the-life of our two favourite men, or a case to solve, or something slightly more strange. Such a talented group of writers! If I was pressured, I'd say I preferred novel-length, unusual stories, with lots of emotion. Oh, and "my" Hutch has a troubled childhood, secrets in the closet, and a depth of feeling for Starsky that Starsky can hardly imagine

What I like:

As to the topic, what I like reading. Well, I really like fantasy. gothic stuff. In fact I wrote a slash fantasy, but sent it to the wrong venue, (sorry again Linda!) I'm hoping to out out a zine along those lines maybe next year if there's enough interest out there. But I do enjoy a well written story, be it straight or slash! This fandom has the best fiction I've read! I like a story that starts off with a bang and ends with a bigger bang. I would really like to see more good detective stories. I think we tend to get wrapped up in the emotional side of Starsky & Hutch, and I'm as much blame as anyone! Let's face it, detective stories are hard to write, but I'd like to see more with or without a slash element. This is the first fandom I’ve been connected with that slash actually works for a change, at least it does for me.

What I like:

TOTM: What sort of stories do I enjoy reading? Well, I’m sure it will surprise no one I prefer slash, but I enjoy any story which is well-written. Their relationship intrigues me, and a story can focus only on some aspect of that and be thoroughly satisfactory to me. Least favorite story lines are those which don't focus in some way on the SH relationship. I enjoy a cop story, but if the lead characters might as well be called Bob and Joe, then forget it. I especially respect writers who can incorporate both aspects — the personal and the external plot -- into a story without shorting either. I freely admit that I can’t do it! I like hurt/comfort as long as there is enough comfort to balance the hurt!